If the LP/CP care about the Country then combine forces & let the GOP go
Posted September 5th, 2008 by ODell Equip
output
I am tired of folks wanting to save the Republican party. It has chosen time and time again that it does not want to be saved. Look at every time a conservative liberty minded republican came to light. Taft, Goldwater, Reagan of the 60's and 70's, Buchanan, Ron Paul, what happened? They got pushed down and a more liberal big government person put up. The republican party talks about being conservative and for small local government, but they are only conservative when they are not in power, they don't care about the country they care about being in control. The last really conservative President we had was Coolidge. And how often do you hear about Coolidge?
In 2004 the Constitution party got 143,630 & the LP got 397,265 votes, how many votes did Dr. Paul get in the primaries this year? 1.1 million or so. I want to see Baldwin step aside like he offered to do and the CP & the LP combine with Dr. Paul at the top.
Shouting our message of liberty at the GOP doesn't make any sense, when you look back at the formation and history of the GOP you see that we have been fooled. Other than the men I mentioned the GOP talks a good game, but it is all for the increase of government just as much as the Dems. The republicans formed out of the whig party which was the direct opposite of the party of Thomas Jefferson. Let them go.
Since nether the GOP or the Dems care about the rule of law or the Constitution then lets realize that us continuing to pursue the same course of action and expecting different results is just crazy.
We were never supposed to governed by parties near about all of our founders warned us against letting parties control our country and that is what has happened, but since we have the access possibly to the LP & the CP lets take it.
Do you think the CP wants to lose with Baldwin & the LP wants to lose with Barr, no but they will because they will never poll 15% and get access to the debates.
Or the other option is Dr. Paul, who will most certainly poll over 15% on a combined LP/CP ticket and be able to get into the debates. The platform of the two parties is not that different & both of them tried to draft him any way.
If the LP & CP care about the country which I think they do they most certainly would allow this change in nominee to take place. And instead of trying to stem the tide of our decent into socialism and facisim we would have a great chance to actually win it.
Imagine Dr Paul's message of common sense, and personal liberty and responsibility on the same stage as Obama's empty jibber jabbar, and McCain's mindless arguments for a third Bush term, both of them running to be the king of the world instead of the President of the Union of States.
When the American people would be able to see him give voice to the message of liberty, the message of what we are supposed to be, in direct comparison to what we have been to led to believe are the two opposite sides of the debate, then the country would be able to finally see that the dems and gop are one in the same, and have ruined our country.
Dr. Paul you have stated yourself that the Dems and GOP have the same positions and perform the same actions, please let the GOP go self destruct and lets save our Union of States, I know that you are just a man and this is about the message of liberty not the man.
But, Dr. Paul you are the man to follow through on that message.
Bookmark/Search this post with:
we all know we have to unite to win
Unity against fascism!
http://www.flickr.com/pho...
LP and CP and RP are all so close
in their views. Nobody would have to give up any major viewpoints. I hope that this is the announcement mentioned on C4L.
United We Stand!
"Freedom is popular"
-Ron Paul
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
I love this paragraph..
Great Quote by Odell equip
" Imagine Dr. Paul's message of common sense, Personal Liberties, and responsibility on the same stage as Obama's empty jibber jabber and McCain's mindless arguements for ta third Bush term, both of them running to be King of the World, instead of the President of the Union of states."
I'm ready to face the challenges this country puts in front of me.
Vote against McBama and the rest of the Republicrats to save this country that we call United States of America.
If I had to choose between,
the Truth and Bush Jibber Jabber,
I choose the truth.
Federalist Fusion?
Stay tuned for "major announcement" and joint appearance from Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Chuck Baldwin scheduled for September 10.
Maybe they've recently re-read the Constitution and were reminded that Dr Paul can be elected president without appearing on a single state ballot.
Great post!
Any body, up and coming in the Republican party, still has to answer to the leaders who are steadfastly joined at the hip with the corporate masters. If you try to buck the system, you will be denied. There will be a barbed wire ceiling for you.
So far, the LP and CP are not owned by corporate masters.
They are not members of the CFR.
They are not members of the Bilderberg group.
They respresent their constituents. period.
If these two parties were to merge, and created a new Ron Paul Liberty party, then we would triple our strength overnight.
And Do What?
And do what?
“I am tired of folks wanting to save the Republican party. It has chosen time and time again that it does not want to be saved.”
We are replacing those people not trying to save them. I am tired of folks advocating a strategy they haven’t tried and the math says won’t work. I am tired of folks ignoring a strategy that is currently working and making progress unlike any other proposed.
“Look at every time a conservative liberty minded republican came to light. Taft, Goldwater, Reagan of the 60's and 70's, Buchanan, Ron Paul, what happened? They got pushed down and a more liberal big government person put up. “
We never had the significant movement for liberty then that we have now. We never had the activist willing to take positions in the party like now.
“In 2004 the Constitution party got 143,630 & the LP got 397,265 votes, how many votes did Dr. Paul get in the primaries this year? 1.1 million or so.”
Which means we still don’t have enough people alone to effect change we need the mindless robot voters of a major party to put us over the top who will vote party line no matter who is running the show.
“Shouting our message of liberty at the GOP doesn't make any sense, when you look back at the formation and history of the GOP you see that we have been fooled. “
We are not shouting our message at them we are trying to take control and replace those in control who do not embrace our message. The rank and file will follow suit with whoever is in power. The history doesn’t matter, it only matters what we can accomplish now.
“Other than the men I mentioned the GOP talks a good game, but it is all for the increase of government just as much as the Dems. “
Which is why we need to take control. If you want to be in power you need to go where the power is not take your ball and go home and throw rocks at them from outside the sandbox
“Since nether the GOP or the Dems care about the rule of law or the Constitution then lets realize that us continuing to pursue the same course of action and expecting different results is just crazy.”
Pursue what same course? What we are doing hasn’t been done in this way before. Reagan and Goldwater went through the established channels of leadership in the party. We are trying to take control of those positions and remove the establishment leadership
“We were never supposed to governed by parties near about all of our founders warned us against letting parties control our country and that is what has happened, but since we have the access possibly to the LP & the CP lets take it. “
Why should we do that? The LP and CP have no power to effect change even with our support. Going with them effectively renders us politically benign and irrelevant just as they are.
“Or the other option is Dr. Paul, who will most certainly poll over 15% on a combined LP/CP ticket and be able to get into the debates. The platform of the two parties is not that different & both of them tried to draft him any way. “
The media will marginalize and black him out worse then they did in the primaries and even if we get 15 percent what good does that do us? We got him 24% here in Idaho and our asshole neocon run delegation didn’t even count our 6 delegates at the RNC. We need to remove the people in power that is the only way we are going to get a fair shake. Going to a 3rd party with not enough numbers effectively leaves them in power to continue to do as they please. They would love for us to leave them.
“If the LP & CP care about the country which I think they do they most certainly would allow this change in nominee to take place. And instead of trying to stem the tide of our decent into socialism and facisim we would have a great chance to actually win it.”
The math says otherwise if we combined with them that would give us about 1.5 million sorry that is no where near enough to win.
“Imagine Dr Paul's message of common sense, and personal liberty and responsibility on the same stage as Obama's empty jibber jabbar, and McCain's mindless arguments for a third Bush term, both of them running to be the king of the world instead of the President of the Union of States.”
Again you seem to forget that people need to hear that message and the media has proven they are a formidable foe to us in suppressing his message. How do you propose to overcome that huge problem?
I understand the sentiment I would love to ditch the Republicans however it doesn’t make sense for us to do so at this time because don’t have the numbers to be effective. If we did I would do it in a heart beat! If you think the American people will rally behind us think again there is still the media problem.
-----
Prepare For the Coming Storms, Join New FreelandersSelf Reliance & Preparedness Forums
I just can't fathom how
I just can't fathom how trying to do a sneaky commando raid to try to force a bunch of people in a private organization, to do something they have proven they don't want to do, and time after time refuse to do, even though they say they want to do it, . . . . . . is going to do one bit of good.
I also think folks are really confused about what the republican party really is and was really formed to do. All the talk about the original republican party, means that a lot of people don't know that the original republican party was formed, as a party to centralize government, to lobby for unconstitutional appropriations of public money to private business, and to keep black folks out of new territories, not just as slaves, but as free men as well, and to try to fund those polices with disproportionate tariffs, that unconstitutionally didn't apply equally to all.
Just because in our lifetime and a few years prior to it there were some great men and women that carried the republican name and were liberty minded and tried to do what was right, doesn't mean this is their history.
Grant was one of our most corrupt presidents, Theodore Roosevelt did much to stifle the free market, got us into war with Spain for no reason, etc etc.
So to say that the original republicans were great free market, small government, liberty minded men is bull. Yes, republicans may have said these things and a few actually tried to do them in your recent memory. But, all in all there is not much reason to try to save a ship that has been sinking since 1856.
I can't really fault folks for not knowing history, kids aren't taught the true course of events anymore. Also logic and reason have fallen by the wayside
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
We are not forcing anyone to
We are not forcing anyone to do anything there is nothing sneaky about it we are playing by the rules out in the open to gain control.
Most of the rank and file voters are small government anti tax personal responsibility etc. they have just been duped by a small group of elites at the top who have coopted the party. Those are whom we are trying to replace but we have to work our way up.
Don't be so sure you have history correct as a historian most of history is very subjective with very little evidence. As they say history is written by the victors. I'll agree it's not what many have been led to believe but that goes for your version also.
Point being the history doesn't really matter it is simply the best vehicle to use at this time to reach our goal of restoring the Republic.
-----
Prepare For the Coming Storms, Join New FreelandersSelf Reliance & Preparedness Forums
TRUE
The people who started the Republican Party in the mid 1800's here in the U.S. are the same people who financed Marx and socialist movements in Europe. They are one in the same. The Republican Party has, from it's inception been the party of strong central government relegating the States to mere administrative subdivisions. Hell, they even started the civil war over it. Lincoln was NEVER in favor of States' rights and I challenge anyone to prove, by his actions, otherwise. The Republicans were always in bed with big business. (aka - corporations, not mom and pop) They were and still are the party of John D. Rockefeller, not Joe's corner meat market.
The Democrats were infiltrated by Fabian Socialists, and the deal has been sealed on limited government.
The Republic has been dead since the civil war. We have been a Democracy ever since.
LP+CP is not going to happen
The religion bias of the CP is huge for many LP members, just as some social positions of the LP would not be accepted by some CP members. Another 3rd party may arise that would draw from both parties however.
A truly libertarian LP is superior to the CP
I think there is a big misconception held by CP members and sympathizers regarding the LP. By the LP, I mean the radical libertarian LP of the past, not it's present state. The LP doesn't or shouldn't take social positions. A lot of CP people think that if a libertarian or LP person doesn't want to ban a certain activity, that they are endorsing it. I choose to leave abortion out of the mix. There are New Deal liberal Democrats who oppose abortion for God's sake. But if you look at gays and gambling, most CPers think that if you don't ban them or itou are endorsing them or it. The CP has many libertarian positions but they also want to use the gov't to impose their set of Christian beliefs, which many libertarians share, on society. I also find it ironic that libertarians feel that taxation is stealing but the CP endorses taxation as long as it is Constitution. In that regard we are upholding Christian principles more that they are.
everything Ron Paul ever did is closely alligned with the
original charter for the Republican Party. I hear people say they dont like the various 3rd parties because of their various leanings- I think a 3rd party that is an EXACT philosophical duplicate of the ORIGINAL republican party would be sucsessful. The exact same charter- the only diffrence is that it is actually FOLLOWED..point by point. Limited govt, personal freedom, states rights & responsible economy- no fringe pet issues. Let all the repubs come over to the original charter with no excuses why they wont join. Its the same party- just restored. No bells , whistles or added crap- just the original repub charter restored. There are parties that come close- but the few deviations (and the fear of new ones) are what scare the lifelong repubs from dropping their current affiliation.
Live Free or Diebold
A duplicate of the ORIGINAL republican party?
An interesting and novel thought that deserves, some consideration I think, Jinc:
"I think a 3rd party that is an EXACT philosophical duplicate of the ORIGINAL republican party would be successful."
It would at least get some attention from the media and the public, I believe.
Or?
As I recall...
...the two big issues the Republican Party was founded on were:
a) slavery
b) polygamy
The Republicans used these issues to catapult themselves into national office.
I don't think we need a party that is based on "the original Republican Party", sorry. :)
haha touche
I suppose just HOW original the party should be is where it gets complicated- we'd risk being entangled in debates as to whether or not each state should determine how the horse poo should be cleaned from in front of the saloons and stuff.
Live Free or Diebold
CP+LP+RP = King Makers
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
—Edmund Burke
Strength,
in Unity.
Unity which is not owned by CFR or Bilderberg or Oil.
Solved: How 3rd parties can get on the debates
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
wow, what a knob that kid is
perhaps he should look at the number of people that watch the MSM debates compared to a youtube only debate. seesh. The internet is still a small part of the world.
I think an online debate could draw a good crowd
If they were to line up sponsors + promote it...Plus this hasn't been done before, so I think the novelty effect might help.
There's no need for them to
There's no need for them to combine forces.
There is only a need for one of them to start winning elections.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Combined forces,
have a better chance at winning.
talk is cheap & controled
Most of any PARTY problems come out of it's PLATFORM. Committees
formed from follow the leader people make up the base . A few aggressive persons control the discission. SO what do you get? SAME ideas, same rehteric & justified egos.
says
Constitutional Liberties Party
sounds like the perfect ticket to me....
BOTH the CP and LP were hoping (salivating) for our good Dr. to be on their ticket
Isn't that telling us something????? Sounds like good old fashioned common sense. It will take something out of the ordinary to happen to accomplish any change. Otherwise, it's the SOS
NOT GONNA HAPPEN
1. The ideological divide over the First Amendment, specifically SOCAS, is too great. Ditto illegal immigration.
2. The CP is in ballot access troubles, with a Keyes faction trying to usurp their rightful nominee Baldwin. The LP wants no part of that mess.
3. The LP is in its own fight right now over gross mismanagement of the national party, a bad lawsuit in NH because the LP happens to have TWO Presidential candidates on teh ballot there (long story at ballot-access.org), and a candidate that half of the party does not support. The CP wants no part in that mess, either.
4. In some states unification is prohibited by law.
IMO, being a LP member, the CP is a viable alterntative for those who prefer Baldwin over Barr. Unfortunately, due to Keyes in CA, that option is not even available here.
At least Louisiana and Virginia have Dr. Paul on the ballot, and Nevada has a NOTA option, and Massachusetts and NH have Phillies instead of Barr. Lucky them.
I couldn't agree more. I've
I couldn't agree more. I've been saying this to friends and family for months. And I think I have a great name for this new party:
THE AMERICAN PARTY!
Plain, simple, to the point.
How 'bout "American Liberty"
How 'bout "American Liberty" Party...
although I still like the "None Of The Above" Party... ;)
That works for me, but to
That works for me, but to not show a bias for one of the two parties I thought any variants of "Libertarian" or "Constitution" should be left out. This way no one's toes get stepped on.
I would like to see them
I would like to see them join and Wayne Allyn Root step down and Baldwin be the v.p. nominee. That would be a ticket I would be willing to support. If that would unite the Ron Paul supporters and th L.P and C.P. I believe there could be a huge amount of votes go to them.
If RP supporters=5%, Barr=8%, baldwin=3%, that is a pretty large block of voters... Plus the chance of picking up disgusted dems and repubs that dislike their forced nominees could add another 3-5%.
Comments?
Ron Paul turned us down
Bob Barr introduced a resolution to the LP board, inviting Ron Paul to run as a Libertarian, months ago, before Barr himself entered the race. The resolution passed.
Ron Paul turned it down. He will not jeopardize his Congressional seat by switching parties. Several of our candidates offered to step aside if he would.
Since it isn't going to happen, you can make the choice on your own which party to join. My suggestion is, if you were made to feel welcome by the GOP in your area, work with them (likewise with the Democrats). If they did not make you feel welcome, the best thing to do is join the LP or other party in your area where you are made welcome.
Don't ask for the people at the top to combine parties. That isn't how it works. The members decide which one to join.
Thanks to Dr. Paul, the LP has been enjoying a growth spurt. All those "libertarian" insults from the press were made to blowback in our favor by the principled and unflappable Dr. Paul. No wonder we love him.
IMissLiberty
I agree... they're so close
I agree... they're so close to being the same... they should have at least done a joint ticket this year.
If all the 3rd parties came together, they could actually maybe stand a chance of having a real impact.
I agree the CP / LP divide
I agree the CP / LP divide is counter-productive. We need an endorsement from Ron, and then the other guy needs to follow suit. I don't care if it's Barr or Baldwin. I'm tired of bickering over whether Barr is a neocon in disguise or Baldwin has the mainstream appeal. These are silly little arguments that only serve to divide us. Barr and Baldwin are both good men.
I was
just thinking about that the other day! That would be incredible.
We could call it the
We could call it the Constitutional Liberties Party.
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
I like it!
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips